Reaction to the first two S8 comics.
Apr. 14th, 2007 09:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowscastSo. About the S8 comics. Now that I've dealt with them in fic (in drabble form, anyway), I feel ready to talk about them.
This is not so much a review as a discussion of my own personal reaction, but it has review-like qualities as well.
I think that my biggest problem with the comics, really, stems from the whole "are they canon?" debate. Which is probably silly. I mean, why does it matter? There's tons of BtVS pro novels out there which I have ignored, and various other comics, some of which I've read and some of which I haven't, and there's the original movie too for that matter, and it's not like it's hard to tell which of these you're talking about, if you're talking about one of them. You could always distinguish between movie canon and show canon, for example (not that anyone ever seems to bother with movie canon—though![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
doyle merges movie and show canon rather nicely in her short fic Once in a Lullaby, a really cool story in the "Normal Again" verse!). So it's not like it's going to be hard to say "show canon only" or "comics canon" to make clear what you're talking about.
And yet. The idea of the comics as canon bothers me, and it keeps coming up in RL discussions with my friends. Specifically, my Buffy-loving comics-fanboy friends. They take the position "Joss wrote them, therefore they're canon" and I try to argue with them, and ... I think they just like getting me riled up.
It's not really an argument that can be won, one way or the other. Points in favour: Joss wrote them; Joss says they're canon; Joss is God. Points against: it's a dramatic shift of medium, style and mood; Joss wasn't the only person resposible for creating the show, and the contributions of most of the others are missing from the comics (most notably the actors, who I would argue had a pretty big part in bringing the characters to life and making them who they were).
The problem is, I'm invested in the idea of "canon" in a way that my friends aren't. The difference is, I write fanfic. Canon is the starting place, the solid foundation for all our flights of imagination, our games of "what if?", our speculations about what happens next.
When you get right down to it, my first and biggest problem with the comics (if they're considered canon) is that I had thought canon was closed. The curtain had fallen and it was all up to us, the fanfic authors, to continue the story ... and for years I've been reading and writing stories, imagining what happens after "Chosen," and some of those stories were amazing and some were forgettable, but they were all equal in the sense that they were all equally true, and equally false. But now these comics come along, and it doesn't matter whether I like them or not, they're the new, privileged truth—relegating all other imaginings to AU status.
The thing that bugs me the most about the comics (as canon), actually, is the way they mess with the actual canon—show canon. I do not like the ret-conning. During S5 of AtS, we were thrown a few little crumbs of information about what was up with the Scoobies: Xander was in Africa looking for Slayers, Willow was in Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro partying with Kennedy, and Buffy was in Rome, dating the Immortal. That was all we had, and so we worked with it.
The Xander-in-Africa idea was pretty damn cool, in fact, and I've seen some amazing stories dealing with the concept. A couple of my favourites are Not Noisy Or Excited bysavoytruffle and Lonely on the Mountain by speakr2customrs; both of the authors have actually lived in Africa themselves. Xander-in-Africa is far too rich a source of stories to give up for Xander-playing-Nick-Fury-in-Scotland.
Buffy dating the Immortal was ... stupid, really. But it was canon, so we worked with it! A lot of writers (me included) just skipped her quickly past it (rebound fling, over it now) but some writers actually managed to flesh out the Immortal and make him an interesting character (shapinglight did it in Vampire Winter, for instance, though it's primarily a Buffy/Spike/Angel story). So it was, frankly, irritating to read in the first few pages of the first S8 comic that, yeah, that wasn't real. Just a decoy, and Andrew's sense of humour.
That's why when I wrote my little S8 prequel yesterday, I devoted the first of the two drabbles entirely to establishing that Xander, Buffy and Willow were exactly where Andrew had said they were. It may not make it real or canonical, but it made me feel better, at least!
So, yeah, that's really the core of my personal issues with the comics. I don't like them messing with my canon! Beyond that, I have other complaints, but there are also things that I like. For instance:
I really like the fact that people are writing and talking about the comics. My flist is more lively with Buffy-centric discussion than it has been in ages!
I don't like the artwork. Specifically, the characters. Arrgh. (Thus the bit in my second drabble about the characters' likenesses being based on blurry surveillance photos. Heh. Makes me feel better!) It's a tough thing, really, drawing recognisable comics versions of real people, and I'm rarely satisfied with the results when artists try. Maybe I should be more generous and just overlook it, but it does bug me—in fact it's a major reason why I haven't consistently sought out other Buffy tie-in comics (though I have read them when they've crossed my path).
I like the nifty little bits and pieces of dialogue. We all try to evoke the feeling of Buffy-speak in our fics, but Joss does Joss better than anyone else (and no wonder)! Like, when the two military guys are in the elevator (well, the one military guy and the one civilian, whatever his role is) and they have their little exchange:
"Yeah, okay, that's gonna get us noticed. Then indicted, then hung."
"Hanged."
"Neither really works for me."
Hee! (I'm such a sucker for a grammar joke.)
I don't like the fact that the Initiative seems to have been reborn. Didn't we already play out this storyline? In S4? (Actually, if the comics made specific reference to the canonical Initiative, that might even warm me up to this incarnation; at least it would feel more like it was building from canon, instead of just backtracking and rewriting the entire series.)
I don't like Buffy playing damsel-in-distress in her skimpy little nightie, but I do hold out hope that the kiss idea is going to play out in some creative, twisty way. I mean, even when Xander and Amy were doing their little expository back-and-forth, while Amy was explicitly setting forth the rules and boundaries, it seemed like there was a mood of "this is silly, isn't it?" about the whole thing. Plus, what an ineffective curse! Given that in Amy's experience, Buffy's pretty much always had a boyfriend and/or one or two other guys pining after her, it seems like she would've come up with some harder condition to meet. But then again, this just makes me think that Amy's holding something back.
(Oh, and also, I did do the break-the-spell-with-a-kiss thing myself in a Spike/Xander fic I wrote three years ago: Unintended Consequences. Heh. That was my utterly self-indulgent "Seeing Red" fixit.)
I don't like the fact that many of the characters seem to be stuck playing themselves as though based on one-paragraph summaries from a Wikipedia cheat sheet: Giles drinks tea, Andrew tells long irrelevant stories about Star Wars, Dawn whines, Xander wears an eye patch and makes comic-book references.* (*I kind of cribbed this point fromruuger, btw!) But then, it's only been two issues, which feels like the equivalent of, I don't know, maybe ten minutes of screen time. I'm willing to be optimistic here: Joss is still in the scene-setting stage, so he's saying "look, here they are, the characters you remember" (it has been a while, after all, especially for anyone who hasn't been reading/writing fanfic or obsessively rewatching the DVDs) and soon he'll let them start to grow and change.
I do like the beautiful sunset and/or frowning guy with a monacle. By which I mean, I do like Buffy and Xander joking around and not taking it all too seriously, even though they're all hard-core and wear combat gear now.
I didn't mind the Buffy/Xander moment as much as a lot of people seem to have, though I'm still unclear as to whether it was supposed to have any basis in reality at all. Was Xander's lecture about treating Dawn right actually supposed to be a part of the cursed dream? But in any case, I could see Buffy and Xander having an awkward, let's-not-mention-this-again sexual encounter sometime after "Chosen." I mean, it's probably better if they didn't, but if they did, no biggie. It's a thing people do.
I don't like the undifferentiated army of Slayers. I'd much rather spend a few pages getting to know one or two of them as people, rather than the big battle scenes that tell me nothing.
I don't like the Slayers' annoyingly spelled-out accents. I mean, showing some differences in dialect is one thing, but I really think Joss has gone overboard with the spellings.
I do, on the other hand, like the Scottish zombies. Hee! Scottish zombies! In kilts! (I wonder if they're supposed to be the Jacobites from the Battle of Culloden or something?)
You know, if I could just be allowed to think of the S8 comics as fanfic (by Joss! Hee!) I think I could enjoy them more ... or at least, focus on the stuff I like, and not worry overly about the rest. So pretty much, that's what I'm going to do. I just need to stop letting my friends bait me about it!
This is not so much a review as a discussion of my own personal reaction, but it has review-like qualities as well.
I think that my biggest problem with the comics, really, stems from the whole "are they canon?" debate. Which is probably silly. I mean, why does it matter? There's tons of BtVS pro novels out there which I have ignored, and various other comics, some of which I've read and some of which I haven't, and there's the original movie too for that matter, and it's not like it's hard to tell which of these you're talking about, if you're talking about one of them. You could always distinguish between movie canon and show canon, for example (not that anyone ever seems to bother with movie canon—though
doyle merges movie and show canon rather nicely in her short fic Once in a Lullaby, a really cool story in the "Normal Again" verse!). So it's not like it's going to be hard to say "show canon only" or "comics canon" to make clear what you're talking about.And yet. The idea of the comics as canon bothers me, and it keeps coming up in RL discussions with my friends. Specifically, my Buffy-loving comics-fanboy friends. They take the position "Joss wrote them, therefore they're canon" and I try to argue with them, and ... I think they just like getting me riled up.
It's not really an argument that can be won, one way or the other. Points in favour: Joss wrote them; Joss says they're canon; Joss is God. Points against: it's a dramatic shift of medium, style and mood; Joss wasn't the only person resposible for creating the show, and the contributions of most of the others are missing from the comics (most notably the actors, who I would argue had a pretty big part in bringing the characters to life and making them who they were).
The problem is, I'm invested in the idea of "canon" in a way that my friends aren't. The difference is, I write fanfic. Canon is the starting place, the solid foundation for all our flights of imagination, our games of "what if?", our speculations about what happens next.
When you get right down to it, my first and biggest problem with the comics (if they're considered canon) is that I had thought canon was closed. The curtain had fallen and it was all up to us, the fanfic authors, to continue the story ... and for years I've been reading and writing stories, imagining what happens after "Chosen," and some of those stories were amazing and some were forgettable, but they were all equal in the sense that they were all equally true, and equally false. But now these comics come along, and it doesn't matter whether I like them or not, they're the new, privileged truth—relegating all other imaginings to AU status.
The thing that bugs me the most about the comics (as canon), actually, is the way they mess with the actual canon—show canon. I do not like the ret-conning. During S5 of AtS, we were thrown a few little crumbs of information about what was up with the Scoobies: Xander was in Africa looking for Slayers, Willow was in Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro partying with Kennedy, and Buffy was in Rome, dating the Immortal. That was all we had, and so we worked with it.
The Xander-in-Africa idea was pretty damn cool, in fact, and I've seen some amazing stories dealing with the concept. A couple of my favourites are Not Noisy Or Excited by
savoytruffle and Lonely on the Mountain by speakr2customrs; both of the authors have actually lived in Africa themselves. Xander-in-Africa is far too rich a source of stories to give up for Xander-playing-Nick-Fury-in-Scotland.Buffy dating the Immortal was ... stupid, really. But it was canon, so we worked with it! A lot of writers (me included) just skipped her quickly past it (rebound fling, over it now) but some writers actually managed to flesh out the Immortal and make him an interesting character (
shapinglight did it in Vampire Winter, for instance, though it's primarily a Buffy/Spike/Angel story). So it was, frankly, irritating to read in the first few pages of the first S8 comic that, yeah, that wasn't real. Just a decoy, and Andrew's sense of humour.That's why when I wrote my little S8 prequel yesterday, I devoted the first of the two drabbles entirely to establishing that Xander, Buffy and Willow were exactly where Andrew had said they were. It may not make it real or canonical, but it made me feel better, at least!
So, yeah, that's really the core of my personal issues with the comics. I don't like them messing with my canon! Beyond that, I have other complaints, but there are also things that I like. For instance:
I really like the fact that people are writing and talking about the comics. My flist is more lively with Buffy-centric discussion than it has been in ages!
I don't like the artwork. Specifically, the characters. Arrgh. (Thus the bit in my second drabble about the characters' likenesses being based on blurry surveillance photos. Heh. Makes me feel better!) It's a tough thing, really, drawing recognisable comics versions of real people, and I'm rarely satisfied with the results when artists try. Maybe I should be more generous and just overlook it, but it does bug me—in fact it's a major reason why I haven't consistently sought out other Buffy tie-in comics (though I have read them when they've crossed my path).
I like the nifty little bits and pieces of dialogue. We all try to evoke the feeling of Buffy-speak in our fics, but Joss does Joss better than anyone else (and no wonder)! Like, when the two military guys are in the elevator (well, the one military guy and the one civilian, whatever his role is) and they have their little exchange:
"Yeah, okay, that's gonna get us noticed. Then indicted, then hung."
"Hanged."
"Neither really works for me."
Hee! (I'm such a sucker for a grammar joke.)
I don't like the fact that the Initiative seems to have been reborn. Didn't we already play out this storyline? In S4? (Actually, if the comics made specific reference to the canonical Initiative, that might even warm me up to this incarnation; at least it would feel more like it was building from canon, instead of just backtracking and rewriting the entire series.)
I don't like Buffy playing damsel-in-distress in her skimpy little nightie, but I do hold out hope that the kiss idea is going to play out in some creative, twisty way. I mean, even when Xander and Amy were doing their little expository back-and-forth, while Amy was explicitly setting forth the rules and boundaries, it seemed like there was a mood of "this is silly, isn't it?" about the whole thing. Plus, what an ineffective curse! Given that in Amy's experience, Buffy's pretty much always had a boyfriend and/or one or two other guys pining after her, it seems like she would've come up with some harder condition to meet. But then again, this just makes me think that Amy's holding something back.
(Oh, and also, I did do the break-the-spell-with-a-kiss thing myself in a Spike/Xander fic I wrote three years ago: Unintended Consequences. Heh. That was my utterly self-indulgent "Seeing Red" fixit.)
I don't like the fact that many of the characters seem to be stuck playing themselves as though based on one-paragraph summaries from a Wikipedia cheat sheet: Giles drinks tea, Andrew tells long irrelevant stories about Star Wars, Dawn whines, Xander wears an eye patch and makes comic-book references.* (*I kind of cribbed this point from
ruuger, btw!) But then, it's only been two issues, which feels like the equivalent of, I don't know, maybe ten minutes of screen time. I'm willing to be optimistic here: Joss is still in the scene-setting stage, so he's saying "look, here they are, the characters you remember" (it has been a while, after all, especially for anyone who hasn't been reading/writing fanfic or obsessively rewatching the DVDs) and soon he'll let them start to grow and change.I do like the beautiful sunset and/or frowning guy with a monacle. By which I mean, I do like Buffy and Xander joking around and not taking it all too seriously, even though they're all hard-core and wear combat gear now.
I didn't mind the Buffy/Xander moment as much as a lot of people seem to have, though I'm still unclear as to whether it was supposed to have any basis in reality at all. Was Xander's lecture about treating Dawn right actually supposed to be a part of the cursed dream? But in any case, I could see Buffy and Xander having an awkward, let's-not-mention-this-again sexual encounter sometime after "Chosen." I mean, it's probably better if they didn't, but if they did, no biggie. It's a thing people do.
I don't like the undifferentiated army of Slayers. I'd much rather spend a few pages getting to know one or two of them as people, rather than the big battle scenes that tell me nothing.
I don't like the Slayers' annoyingly spelled-out accents. I mean, showing some differences in dialect is one thing, but I really think Joss has gone overboard with the spellings.
I do, on the other hand, like the Scottish zombies. Hee! Scottish zombies! In kilts! (I wonder if they're supposed to be the Jacobites from the Battle of Culloden or something?)
You know, if I could just be allowed to think of the S8 comics as fanfic (by Joss! Hee!) I think I could enjoy them more ... or at least, focus on the stuff I like, and not worry overly about the rest. So pretty much, that's what I'm going to do. I just need to stop letting my friends bait me about it!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 01:38 am (UTC)This is exactly what I took away from that little scene... that most likely at some point after Buffy lost Spike and Xander lost Anya the two of them probably got a little too drunk, had some incredibly bad sex and probably now do their best to never speak of it again. Although that particular take on things could easily get Jossed... it really did look like if they did have sex, it definitely didn't go very well.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 01:42 am (UTC)Exactly. I mean, the fact that we're not sure if it was reality or dream makes it trickier ... and then, if it was a dream, was it a dream based closely on reality, or was it Buffy's subconscious brain going "you know, if I ever had had sex with Xander, it probably wouldn't have gone very well!"?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 01:45 am (UTC)Highlander did the same to me. It's practically impossible to justify the first 3 movies and the series together in a timeline that makes much sense at all so I always considered the two as two different worlds (not to mention the books based on the series). But then the 4th movie came out and it fit NEITHER the Highlander movie-verse NOR the Highlander series-verse but had characters from both. It blows my mind. Plus the 4th movie KILLED some of the most important canon facts from the series that so many theories and fanfics are based on. The movie was made by the official people and all so it should be canon... but I have to separate it in my mind in order to enjoy it because otherwise it ruins things I've enjoyed thinking about or taking for granted with the other canon. (I won't even get into the cartoon series, the 5th movie, or the comics since I haven't seen the latter two).
ANYWAY, I totally know how frustrating it is when you think the chapter's closed and then down the road they open the book back up and change things not necessarily for the better. I'm sorry :-( I'm glad you found some things to like about them, though. And I really enjoyed reading your drabbles yesterday when I was at work. Very clever.
If it's any consolation, you should have seen the wide grin on my face when you mentioned Unintended Consequences! Ooohhhhh with the extreme nummy!!
I've got to say, I'm curious about the Buffy comics now, though. Scottish Zombies? Kickass! I'm totally obsessed with the Scottish Vampires (many of which are indeed Jacobites from the 45' rising) in 'How to Marry a Millionare Vampire' and I have a bunny in mind for NaNoWriMo this year involving gay, Scottish, immortal beings *G*
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 02:47 am (UTC)I'm really glad to know you still think fondly of Unintended Consequences. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 08:51 am (UTC)(Sticks fingers in ears and goes "la la la" and refuses to hear any statement to the contrary)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 08:52 am (UTC)That should of course read "(or 'Highlander 3: The Final Dimension' in some countries)."
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 04:37 pm (UTC)heehee Man, you know I've been away from the fandom too long when I read your post and thought you were completely serious, forgetting all about that movie 2 doesn't exist tendency. I must admit there are a few Sean Connery moments/lines I love... but, yeah, I hear you. Space aliens? I don't know what I was thinking. Must have been the stress of trying to assemble the timeline in my head while I was crafting my response.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 03:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 03:41 am (UTC)Anyway, I'm totally copping to the "I don't WANT the comics to be canon" thing—that's paragraphs, umm, 6 through 10. I'm not presenting an argument for why they're not canon, I'm explaining why I don't want them to be.
I really do think there's a difference between the comics and the show, though. I mean, I wish "The Girl in Question" wasn't canon, but I'd never claim that it wasn't. It's part of the show, therefore it's canon. But the comics aren't part of the show, they're something else.
Honestly, after all the love, time and money I've invested in this fictional universe, I do have some sense of entitlement. I mean, it's not like I'm going to write to Joss and tell him "Hey, I don't like what you're doing with the comics, stop it!" but I do feel free to bitch about it on my fannish livejournal.
PS: I am so looking forward to actually seeing you! *hug*
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 10:08 am (UTC)You better believe it! It's gonna be great!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 06:20 am (UTC)on a purely visceral level I don't perceive this drawed Buffy as the one who moved, talked, sang, laughed and cried onscreen. I can be a happy Spuffy shipper who reads and occasionally writes fanfiction and gets her Spuffy fix on fanfiction archives; and, at the same time, I can enjoy the adventures of these new and improved Buffy and Xander who remind me Nikita and Michael a lot.
Comic!Buffy isn't show Buffy, it's that simple.
Re. the ret-co, then I don't really have a problem with making The Immortal go *poof* - because the only confirmation we ever got onscreen that it was really Buffy in Rome came from Andrew... That said, I have seen excellent things done with him ('Vampire Winter' springs to mind, as does 'Mortal Wounds' by
Essentially, this is Joss' version of what happened after the show ended. (I love the show, and will defend anything including AYW and Caleb. *If* the comics go the way of B/X I'll walk away.)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 01:30 am (UTC)Hey, speaking of defending Caleb, here's the fic that made sense of him for me: The Lord's Work (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/shadowlass/caleb.html) by Shadowlass.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 12:58 pm (UTC)Though I did love that Xander was around for Buffy and Dawn, I liked the parental feeling of him and Buffy taking care of Dawn throughout S7, and I liked that it continued in S8. Buffy being quite closer to Xander than the other core four members is also something I noticed in S7 and was glad it continued in S8.
I also like that Xander is getting some focus for a change, since he's usually pushed to the background in the show.
I didn't like the Giant!Dawn storyline. I think it's stupid, but I'll wait and see. As they say, must finish reading the poem before judging. It's not a finished episode yet.
I also like how my flist talk about BtVS again with so much passion. Some new ideas of fanfic started, people are considering writing the Buffy-Xander one time sex after Chosen. Whether positively or negatively. Some are writing about how Dawn feels about being a giant. Some about the new characters Renee and Leah. And so on. New icons are made like mine *points at it* The Banders are happy. The Spuffies and Bangels are uniting (who would've thought!) against the poor helpless Banders.
It's a good stir into an almost dying fandom.
I think it's up to people to consider it canon or not. One way or another, I'm happy the comics are here. I miss Buffy and gang, and I'm glad the focus is back on the core four.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 02:29 am (UTC)Oh really? I'd thought that S8 was meant to be concurrent with Angel S5 (as it would have been if it had been an actual aired season).
Well, in that case, I'll assume he's been in Africa even in comics-canon until proven otherwise!
I also like how my flist talk about BtVS again with so much passion.
For sure!
It's a good stir into an almost dying fandom.
Oh, I don't think the fandom was dying! Getting a bit quieter, maybe, whittling itself down to a smaller core, but nowhere near death.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 01:33 pm (UTC)You didn't know? Jos had stated that the events of these comics are set 6 months after Not Fade Away.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 02:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 04:22 pm (UTC)Dawn: Why do we have to be in Scotland?
Buffy: You don't have to be in Scotland. You have to be at Berkeley.
Dawn: Believe me, as soon as I'm person-sized, I'm out of here.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-15 07:22 pm (UTC)Well, yes and no. I mean, it's the foundation but which one really? I mean within canon there are already many different interpretations existing (which is why fanfic differs so much). Aside from some rather obvious retcons and glaring inconsistencies within canon, there is also different canon depending on the POV of characters. I mean, what about Dawn for example? Strictly speaking every fanfic based on pre-S5 episodes is essentially AU from the POV of that character. Or more to the point, we don't know what was changed and what wasn't.
The most obvious example of this is the fact that what Andrew said was taken as canon in the first place. First of all, aside from the Immortal thing, there's no reason Xander and Willow couldn't have been exactly where he said, just not for all that long. Second, Andrew was clearly by the end of the episode an unreliable narrator (in fact he always has been). So it's rather interesting that there hasn't been as much fic exploring that issue than assuming what he said was true. And it seems to me Andrew's "facts" simply seemed interesting and therefore inspired storytelling.
I guess what will be interesting to see is if, with people's awareness of the retcon (even if they haven't read the comics) there continues to be fic exploring those possibilities?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 03:39 am (UTC)Andrew as an unreliable narrator is a fascinating topic, but one I find frustrating in terms of his character development, because part of my understanding of "Storyteller" (an episode which I loved) was that it was the episode in which Andrew stopped being an unreliable narrator—that was the emotional climax of that story.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 04:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-16 11:07 am (UTC)I think what makes Buffy more believable is that a development of one episode isn't enough for the character to change as a whole. In The Zeppo, Xander learned to be more confident, yet he still felt as insecure as possible or even more insecure than he felt pre-The Zeppo in S4, earlier S5, later S6. It was until we reached S7 that Xander started to grow confident, four years after The Zeppo.
Andrew kept telling stories after Storyteller, his Faith introduction for example. And then when he lied to Xander about Anya saving his life, except this time he did it because he wanted to make Xander happy, here's a new development but still didn't save the older development about not making stories.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-21 01:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 12:19 am (UTC)