Just to settle a point in my mind

[shadowscast]

First, my condolences to everyone who watched the last Angel ep last night. And please don't spoil me! (I still need to see all of Buffy S7 and all of Angel S5. Since I have a friend with tapes, and lots of free time just now, I should get there in a week or two.)

Anyway. I just watched Buffy S6, and I had a thought, and I figured I'd share.

Like my subject line says, I just want to settle this point in my mind. Back in S3 "Dopplegangland," this exchange is had:

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.

Angel: Well, actually... (gets a look from Buffy) That's a good point.

So, I can clearly conclude that Buffy and Angel were fibbing to protect Willow's feelings, right?
Proof:
1) Angel was clearly about to say something else before Buffy intervened.
2) Willow is gay.
3) Heartbroken Evil Willow from the end of S6 had some eerie similarities to Vampire Evil Willow from the Wishverse. Most notably to me, the "Bored now" line, which Vamp Willow uses on Percy and Dark Avenger Willow uses on Warren. And Regular Willow never even heard Vamp Willow use that line.

Comments

[that_mireille]

Buffy *may* have been sincere at first, but yes, once Angel spoke up, it became all about protecting Willow's feelings.

[flurblewig.livejournal.com]

That's absolutely my reading of it, yes.

It seems clear that Angel is going to say 'well actually, that's not quite true' or something like that, but Buffy's look makes him realise that's not what Willow needs to hear and he covers.

I agree with your proofs - there were definite shades of Human Willow in Vamp Willow,(and oh my GOD how much did Dark Willow's 'bored now' line freak me out? Eeeeee!) - and also think of Harmony - she hardly changed a bit, bless her :-)

I wonder a lot about how different Spike might have turned out if William had had different vamp mentors. Even after twenty years or so of Angelus-training and a hundred-plus years of Dru-craziness, he still retained a lot of his human empathy - so I do wonder what he might have been like if he'd been 'raised' as it were, by milder vamps.

[shadowscast.livejournal.com]

so I do wonder what he might have been like if he'd been 'raised' as it were, by milder vamps.

Interesting question. Do any of the 'milder' vamps survive that long? They seem like cannon-fodder for the most part.

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I reckon they have to have some connection to the human/souled part of them cos otherwise Angel wouldn't need redemption--soulboy is clean, or fairly clean anyway--Angelus did the real big nasty not Liam or Angel. On the other hand...

::ponders the paradox that is Spike::

[shadowscast.livejournal.com]

::ponders the paradox that is Spike::

Mmm, yes. Let's do that. At length. :)

I really look forward to seeing Angel S5, to see where they took souled Spike.

[myriadworlds.livejournal.com]

Doesn't this also explain the fact that Spike can be "the fool for love"? We see in flashbacks in some season, sorry I have a really bad sense of what episode is in which season, that Spike was the good loyal son and capable of sacrificing for love.
As for Willow there is a scene I just loved in one episode (sorry no gray matter left for remembering episode names or season numbers) where Guiles is chastising her for using her power and she says something like, That's right I am a very powerful witch and you should start being more polite. That was a wonderful flash of powerful, doesn't suffer fools Willow. I liked that a lot better than little, dips her head and demurs Willow.

[shadowscast.livejournal.com]

Powerful Willow got a little scary, though.

I think Willow was at her best in the relationship with Tara. Tara saw her as cool and strong and confident, and Willow became that when she was with her.

And yeah, Spike's human personality was all sweet and geeky and he loved his mom and I love him.