shadowscast

Hee, small world I guess.

Thanks for the advice. *g* I'll be keeping the Herald friended, myself, since it's useful for finding interesting stuff. I rarely have the patience to skim my unfiltered flist. Anyway, I can always soothe my inner 3-year-old with chocolate!

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jans-intentions.livejournal.com

Chocolate's good too. It's just so cool to talk to other writers that I respect and know I'm not the only 3 year old. ;)

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Are you saying you respect me? Neat! *g*

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entrenous88.livejournal.com

I'd say you should try providing a link to the

su_herald post when you have something you think they should consider linking to -- it's not a guarantee of being listed, but definitely even though the editors try to get a wide scope they occasionally don't know about some fic or meta posts because their searches simply don't hit those entries.

So the next time, go to the last herald post, and leave your LJ name (no [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] part), an html link (like http://www.livejournal.com/users/shadowscast/58341), the basic info (FIC: Title (Pairing, Rating, number if any). It's certainly worth trying it out.

And as one last helpful thing to know, they sometimes are careful not to overrepresent on a particular pairing. So many S/X fics might be culled more selectively, while a lone Ethan/Lindsey story will have that "ooh, shiny!" factor.

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You are very wise, and your advice is sound.

In fact one time while I was posting a WIP fairly regularly I did notify the SU Herald about it—or, anyway, I followed the procedure listed in their userinfo, got an email back from the editor I'd emailed saying "I'm not active anymore, email this person instead," and then I emailed the other person and never heard anything.

My failure to ever pimp my stuff to them after that is probably a mix of shyness, awkwardness with the idea of self-pimping, and plain old laziness.

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entrenous88.livejournal.com

Oh, that's hard -- sounds like it was an issue with them experiencing some shake-ups in the editorial seats. It's quite possible that person #2 wasn't even around for so long, and so never answered your query because of that. That's happened a bit over there. My impression is that searching for links and deciding what to feature is exhausting work, so there's just turnover, unfortunately.

So maybe try again? I think it would be worth it. :) I know that

crazydiamondsue has recently gotten on board, so she should be around for a while. And

sweptawaybayou really likes editing the herald, so I imagine she should be there for a while longer as well. I think Sue does Fri/Sun, and Snow does Wed/Thurs.

dodyskin does Mon/Tues, but I know she's really busy and I think she's hoping someone will replace her soon, so I'd advise trying the others first if you do decide to leave a comment sometime.

And hee! I hadn't realized that I had that schedule of editors in my head until I began writing it down here. Loyal

su_herald reader, I guess!

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Well, maybe I will. Thanks for the tips, anyway! :)

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that_mireille

I know

dodyskin was asking that people drop them a link when they post new fic/fanart/whatever.

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tsavoritegarnet.livejournal.com

I take note whenever I see your name. :-) Although I wouldn't know if it were in the SU Herald or not, despite the fact that also passes over my screen, I'm not actually reading or scanning it for anything yet. The inner three year old is entitled to pout, (as 3 year olds do), because what you write is well worth paying attention to.

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*says it again*

Every time you post any sort of Buffy fandom product, drop a link in the most recent entry of the

su_herald that goes like this:

Fallen From Grace Part 16 Spike Buffy Angel R
http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrisleeoctaves/93608.html

Frex.

*pats you on the shoulder*

Okay? *dashes onwards*

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Did that.

No result.

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Um.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/su_herald/67342.html
(x.Funeral Games Part Four by [info]deborahmm Spike/Wesley)

I beg to differ.

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Okay! Your word is law. *g*

(Truly, I'm in awe of the work you do.)

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I hate it, tbh. I have no time for it and it has completely destroyed any pleasure I once found in fandom. I'm doing it now because I said I would fill in for a short time whilst people got themselves together, as a favour to a friend. But it's been well over a month and I am so damn tired of fic writers thinking I have it in for them. Not that that's what you were saying, just that it's a common problem when newsletter running. I think many people genuinely think I have a file on every single one of the 700 readers of the Herald and sit on some enormous throne making solemn pronouncements of worth.

I don't. I stay up all night (because I'm a normal person with a life and responsibilities in the day) smoking furiously and scrolling through 900 memes and 647 picspams trying to fill three spots on each category because I promised my friend my help. And then I asked for some help from my friends, because I thought it would be a shame if the Herald died when so many people like it. That's the whole of it.

I hate it and I wish someone would take over. It is causing me some personal distress. On non-Herald days I sigh with relief.

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Oh man, I'm sorry to hear all that. *hug*

Come to think of it, I remember you saying quite some time ago that you were leaving the Herald. This was, like, six months ago I think. So I was surprised when I noticed you doing it again.

I know I could never handle that role; I can't even keep up with my own flist. And it sounds like it's a largely thankless task.

So, um, THANK YOU! You really do rock. And rule. And hey, remember back when we were both total LJ fandom newbies? (Gosh, now I feel old.)

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Hee. Didn't we get our journals on, like, the *exact* same day? omg we were such n00bs. You were cooler than me though. I was all gauche and shit.

I kept asking stuff like, 'why don't people comment??', and I was just curious but I can see how it might have come across now. *dies*

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frimfram.livejournal.com

This is fascinating. I am inclined to agree with you.

kantayra's post was sensitive, complex, and nuanced, but it still basically argued that people get turned on to gay relationships because something awful has happened to them in the context of a straight one. That sentiment makes me go "....eh."

I like het and slash pairings. The standard and style of writing is a far better indicator of whether I'll like a fic than is the pairing it features. I like the ease with which talented writers can pair Spike with pretty much any other character. That's one of the reasons I love Spike: as has often been noted, he's a little black dress. Goes with anything. And he seems to me like a case in point of how useless it can be to lump people into sexuality categories.

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That's one of the reasons I love Spike: as has often been noted, he's a little black dress. Goes with anything.

So very, very true!

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Interesting post and thanks for the link. I was traumtised by that storyline too, so I know how she feels. On the other hand, I was already a slasher and I totally fail to see a correlation between being traumatised by the AR thing and what it did to Spike (and implied about his fans and ME's view of them) and people suddenly deciding Spike is 'gay' and they're going to become slash fans.

I didn't see any of that and I think she's gone a wank too far, which is why I can't respond to her post.

I know what you mean about

su_herald, by the way. They've only recced fic I've written once. Otherwise they totally ignore me, even when I self-pimp. I feel like de-friending the thing actually.

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You are, of course, free to defriend whatever you like, but I'm curious as to what you are looking for from the Herald. I mean, surely you already read your own fic, so what difference does it make whether you appear in it?

I'm not making a judgement here; I'm genuinely curious. From my perspective, the point of reading the Herald would be to find *new* fic, that you haven't seen.

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but I'm curious as to what you are looking for from the Herald. I mean, surely you already read your own fic, so what difference does it make whether you appear in it?

That rather seems to contradict what you told

shadowscast up above about self-pimping her work. Have I misunderstood totally that whole thing and you meant we should only pimp other people's work? If so, I'm sorry. I was under the impression that you meant if people had written something and hoped that it being mentioned in

su_herald would get it seen more widely, then they should self-pimp.

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that_mireille

I'm not necessarily defending the Herald; I self-pimp there when I remember, I don't when I don't; sometimes I get mentioned and sometimes I don't. Since (while I do have it friended) it's on a filter for newsletters, and I almost never look at it unless I want to leave a self-pimping comment or I'm desperate for fic, I don't really know. I know I've been mentioned in the past, because I've had feedback that said "got here via

su_herald." But I don't ever look at it if I've posted fic lately, because in general, I like the ignorance. *g*

But I think the point was that whether or not a writer's fic gets mentioned doesn't really have a lot of effect on how useful the Herald may be to her as a reader/fan--which would presumably be why she'd have it friended in the first place.

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I can't answer this very well, because I suspect I've misunderstood the whole pimping thing anyway and we were never meant to self-pimp in the first place.

Of course, I use the herald for other things and to finds fics/articles I might not otherwise see the same as other people do, but when you've pimped something of your own and think you've been ignored (which is what happened to me, but it seems I was mistaken)it can leave you bewildered as to the reason, and that in turn can make you feel unwelcome. However, it seems I misunderstood the new linking request and self-pimping was never what was intended anyway.

I'm going to delete this comment when I've posted it, as I did with one to

dodyskin above, as

shadowscast's Lj doesn't seem the place for this. If you want to say more, maybe it'd be best to come and do it at my LJ?

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I'm sorry, I don't see the contradiction or the confusion. I'm not being combative, I just don't understand what you mean.

I said: "Whenever you post any Buffy fandom product, drop a link in the Herald"

Is that not clear? So, when you, deborahmm, post f (http://www.livejournal.com/community/su_herald/58889.html)ic (http://www.livejournal.com/community/su_herald/58762.html) or a talking point (http://www.livejournal.com/community/su_herald/68105.html) or anything else, drop a link in the comments of the most recent entry of the

su_herald.

I have no idea what the contradiction is here. If everyone posts their links, the editor can sit down and make a nice update with a little bit of something for everyone. If people don't do that then editors spend hours they do not have surfing for links. Hours and hours and hours, and then? They quit. And then there is no Herald.

If you don't wish to say what you want from the Herald, that's ok! It's okay to not discuss it, but I really don't understand what you are talking about here.

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Well, I don't understand what you're talking about either. You asked me what I want from the herald - news and fics, like everyone else. You seemed to me to be saying that it shouldn't matter to me whether I see my own work on it, because I've already read it and don't need to read it again, and I took you to mean that you didn't want people to self-pimp after all, that's all.

This is because I think it's a bit disingenuous of you to suggest that people don't get a thrill out of seeing their work recced on the herald and won't be disappointed if it isn't, and since I could hardly believe you meant that, I thought I must have misundestood the whole principle of the linking. I'm a fanfic writer, not a saint, and I like feedback the same as any other fanfic writer likes it. When I write something, I hope that people will read it, if it appeals to them, and I know that being recced on the herald is a good thing, that's all. I've come across writers and fics that I've never heard of and that I've really enjoyed through the herald and I don't see how it's wrong of me - or even very unusual - to hope the same thing will work for me.

I'm sorry - as I said above - that I was wrong about you not reccing my story and thank you for doing so.

Again, if there's more to be said, my LJ seems like a better place to do it than

shadowscast's.

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I made no accusations and never suggested you'd done anything wrong. You made one false statement which I corrected in the assumption you were merely mistaken and that turned out to be the case.

I just asked a question. That's all. If you think this is some big problem and we need to go and have a discussion elsewhere and you have to delete your comments and all that business, then I have no particular interest tbh. I was just wondering. If I don't know something, I tend to ask. It's like, a habit.

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Consider the matter closed, then. I've no further interest in discussing it either.

The whole deleting comments thing was not some suggestion to make a big production out of all this, just seems to me simple politeness to [Unknown site tag], that's all, since this is her LJ and this conversation is nothing to do with her.

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ex-dovil323.livejournal.com

Just to put it into perspective a bit these mods and editors spend hours each day putting this all together for nothing but the love of fandom. It's not like they get feedback everytime they post saying what a great job they're doing. And it's not like their paypacket can be docked.

If my name goes up, it's nice you're right, but it's on my flist because it's a resource so I can find other stuff out there they I might otherwise miss out on. And never fear I've seen your name come up several times. It's not a popularity contest, you don't get judged as to whether it's worthy or not to feature in the exalted hearld, it's just saying that this is the fic that they've been pointed to by the authors or by others that it's there. It's not a rec page.

Sorry, I'm probably way out of line saying this. And I think it's meant more than a general statement to a lot of people I've seen stating things like this rather than to you in particular. I'm just venting without malice.

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crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com

Hey there - jumping 'cause I'm editing the Herald today and

dodyskin had included a link to your fic "Fever Dreams," but the link doesn't work. Is it a locked post? Thanks!

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crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com

Never mind - found the open one. Thanks!

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flurblewig.livejournal.com

Interesting post, and also very interesting to see how opposite your expereince was. I think if there's one constant in fandom, it's that there *is* no constant :-)

It seems to me that people are drawn to analyse that which they don't personally understand, so some people need to explore the 'why slash?' question while others need no further explanation than 'because I like it'. Personally, I like it :-)

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Lots of stuff, but one that seems to have been forgotten. I find it odd that with all this talk of attempted rape, that Willow never gets mentioned.

Sure, Spike was theoretically only trying to kill Willow in her dorm room, but the paralells couldn't be more blindingly obvious.

... did no one else see the end result coming? I find that highly unlikely.

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Sure, Spike was theoretically only trying to kill Willow in her dorm room, but the paralells couldn't be more blindingly obvious.

Ah, right, that scene. (Which is disturbingly funny.)

I think the reason it doesn't come up in these discussions is because it happens so early on the timeline. The only point in mentioning it would be to prove that Spike was, at one time, capable of violence against women—but that point isn't in contention. He's a vampire; he was definitely evil. The question is, after two years of living amongst Buffy and her friends, how much has he changed?

It's funny, when I read your first intro:
I find it odd that with all this talk of attempted rape, that Willow never gets mentioned.
...before my eyes had time to go down to the next line, I thought you were referring to the Willow/Tara S6 arc. That is, I thought you were bringing up Willow not as the victim, but as the aggressor.

And actually, even if that's not what you meant, I think that's a relevant point! I have seen what Willow did to Tara in S6, with the memory-wiping spell, referred to as "mind rape." But it usually doesn't get talked about. Honestly, although the Willow/Tara reunion is very beautiful and happy-making (right up until Warren shows up with his gun), if you start to think about it, it's really disturbing that Tara goes back to Willow after what Willow did to her.

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Ah, right, that scene. (Which is disturbingly funny.)

I think the reason it doesn't come up in these discussions is because it happens so early on the timeline. The only point in mentioning it would be to prove that Spike was, at one time, capable of violence against women—but that point isn't in contention. He's a vampire; he was definitely evil. The question is, after two years of living amongst Buffy and her friends, how much has he changed?

More importantly, though, that was after he got the chip. So same conditions as when he attacked Buffy. Further, the vampires of this universe don't change. Witness the season finale of Angel...

Angel tells Harmony he knew she'd betray him. Why? She's a vampire without a soul. She doesn't change and, I suspect, can't. Spike is no different while soulless as illustrated.

It's funny, when I read your first intro:
I find it odd that with all this talk of attempted rape, that Willow never gets mentioned.
...before my eyes had time to go down to the next line, I thought you were referring to the Willow/Tara S6 arc. That is, I thought you were bringing up Willow not as the victim, but as the aggressor.

And actually, even if that's not what you meant, I think that's a relevant point! I have seen what Willow did to Tara in S6, with the memory-wiping spell, referred to as "mind rape." But it usually doesn't get talked about. Honestly, although the Willow/Tara reunion is very beautiful and happy-making (right up until Warren shows up with his gun), if you start to think about it, it's really disturbing that Tara goes back to Willow after what Willow did to her.

Interesting. I myself, wouldn't push it to calling it as mind rape. To qualify for that, IMO, it would have to be a great deal more invasive.

Rooting around and exposing secrets Tara didn't want to share from her mind, for instance. Or altering her personality to the point where she was virtually a mindless automaton.

Willow just tried to move Tara back a few moments in time, to the Tara that she wasn't constantly getting into arguments with. She still had free will and the same mindset that would lead her to discovering what Willow did. True mind rape would leave Tara unable to or unwilling to look in that direction, if you ask me.

Anyhow, it doesn't disturb me in the slightest. Tara had time apart (although it isn't seen) and she has come to terms with what happened, and when and why she might try rekindling their relationship. Further, her departure was necessary for Willow to recover, and recover she did. Once Willow went cold turkey, things were okay-ish again. The stage was set for the possibility. And Tara forgave her. To err is human. To forgive...

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tabaqui

Huh. Stumbled onto this through..gods knows. Heh.

My big problem with the whole Willow mind-spell thing? She wouldn't acknowledge it was wrong. She ranted to Rat-Amy about meeting someone, falling in love, then they get mad at you and leave for no good reason.

She never seemed like she was truly sorry for the spell. She said she was 'sorry' - but i think she'd do it again in a heartbeat. She wanted, as Tara said, to make things like she thought they should be, regardless of what Tara wanted. And when Tara found out, and told her how violated it made her feel, she DID IT AGAIN.

That's not free will. If Dawn had never said anything, Tara would never have known, and who knows what other little tweaks Willow would have done to make their 'ship 'perfect'?

All too scary.

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Huh. Stumbled onto this through..gods knows. Heh.

Causality? Who needs causality? Causality is for wimps. :D Hiya.

My big problem with the whole Willow mind-spell thing? She wouldn't acknowledge it was wrong. She ranted to Rat-Amy about meeting someone, falling in love, then they get mad at you and leave for no good reason.

She never seemed like she was truly sorry for the spell. She said she was 'sorry' - but i think she'd do it again in a heartbeat. She wanted, as Tara said, to make things like she thought they should be, regardless of what Tara wanted. And when Tara found out, and told her how violated it made her feel, she DID IT AGAIN.

That's not free will. If Dawn had never said anything, Tara would never have known, and who knows what other little tweaks Willow would have done to make their 'ship 'perfect'?

All too scary.

When I spoke of free will, I mean that Tara was left with some measure of free will. You'd have to get to the 'who knows what other little tweaks' point before robbing her of free will completely.

Anyhow, I would not expect rational, upstanding behaviour from a crack head any more than I do from a magic addict. And while she was still on the magic, I agree she would (and did!) do it again. The real question is, would you be willing to give a recovering crack head a chance? In Tara's case, the answer is yes.

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tabaqui

Since i didn't agree one bit with the 'magic addiction' arc - and since Giles refuted it in season seven rather neatly - no, i would not have given Willow a 'second chance' and really was pretty flabberghasted when Tara came back.

Of course, she only came back so she could get shot and we could see 'evol!Willow', so ME was rather irritating in that respect.

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Didn't agree with it? I'm not sure I follow.

Yeah, and it was the only episode where the actress got full credit too. >_

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tabaqui

I thought the 'magic addiction' was a cop out. She WASN'T addicted to magic, she just liked the power. In ep one of season seven Giles himself says that there is no 'magical addiction'.

So very lame.

So, she NOT being an 'addict', but instead a manipulative and insensitive person, i was very disappointed to see Tara come back to her.

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I don't recall that in the slightest, to be honest.

Anyhow, while magic may not be physically addictive, just about anything can be psychologically addictive.

I thought that was the whole point of the 'using too much magic' bit.

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tabaqui

I remember mostly because it made me crow gleefully. 'magical addiction' was a lame idea on ME's part.

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It's a metaphor for any kind of addiction, really. I'm not sure why you think it 'lame'. I did a little digging and I think the passage you're referring to is this one.

Willow: I don't have that much power, I don't think.
Giles: Everything's connected. You're connected to a great power, whether you feel it or not.
Willow: Well you should just take it from me.
Giles: You know we can't. This isn't a hobby or an addiction. It's inside you now, this magic. You're responsible for it.

I don't think that's a flat-out denial that what happened wasn't addiction. First, IMO, Giles seems to be saying it isn't as simple as a hobby or an addiction. Just being very Giles about it. Second, the 'now' hints at the current state of things. Could be that previously it wasn't as deeply intwined with her. That's my read on it, anyways.

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tabaqui

It was lame, to me, since they showed her 'getting high' at Rack's and then being burned out later, and also showed her having physcial symptoms of withdrawl, like nausea, shakes, etc.

Much more interesting if they'd simply gone with 'Willow has issues about self-worth and uses magic to bolster her self-confidence and manipulate the people/situations around her when she's feeling uncomfortable'.

Treating it like an After School Special on pot-smoking was annoying. And if it really WAS an 'addiction' then, like any other addict, Willow should have never, ever done magic again.

Much better ways to have handled it.

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I think they were aiming for a power trip vein. And of course the whole setup for Willow to go be the 'big bad'.

Anyhow, losing her magic or never touching it again doesn't seem to be an option, judging from the interchange between Willow and Giles. Besides, quitting cold turkey and never going back to an addiction is far easier said than done.

Though I do agree that they could've picked a better way to do things. But then again, I never liked Tara's death and the events leading to it. It felt more like twisting the plot a bit, as if they were in too much of a hurry to get a non-lame 'big bad' to replace the Trio.

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tabaqui

Yup, exactly. It was like 'oh, we've gotten rid of the lame nerdy guys, mostly, so...what's next? oh! Willow goes all nutso! Ummmm...'

Just...not well thought out.

*sigh*

The hallmark of the ME plot.
:)

I felt like, if they were gonna treat it like a drug addiction, then they should have stuck with that. And since Willow never using magic again wouldn't work for the plot of the show, they should have gone some different route.

Or they could have had Willow regain her techno-geek cred and let Tara do the magic instead of killing her off. Or even Giles, since he was no slouch in that department. I wasn't all that invested in Willow-as-magic-user, anyway.

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